D ialogue international

Dear Mr. Genod,

I am hoping that you are doing well and your projects in the last days have been successful!

In the case you have time, I would like to ask you a few questions about your work! Maybe one of the most important ones for me: are you planing a rehearsal in the next months in Germany?

Tomi

Dear Tomi, 

I have no work at all. I have just given 10 performances in Neuchâtel and Paris of three shows, but since February 4th, I have no more work... And it is possible that I will never have any more because I don't know how to ask. I've been working since 2003 because I was offered it...

Yves-Noël

Hello Yves-Noël,

thank you for your reply! Have I understood it correctly: You won't do no more shows/performances anymore in the future? If this is correct, I would be very sad about this fact! 

But I have read today the posting (by using google translator) on your Blog about "Par le sourire". Are there new inspirations about a play together with some drama students?

The truth is, I don't know!

Tell me about yourself...

Oh, that's very sad! I hope that you will get new inspirations for plays and performances!

What can I tell about me? My name is Tomi, from Germany, and I am interested in different kinds of modern art. Maybe it is due to the fact, that I studied physics and I need some contrast to may daily work! :-D

Physics, c’est bien. Bon courage !

Thank you! So, what you would like to know?

About you? Everything! I’m always curious. Tell me about your life, your way of thinking, your appearance, etc.

So, maybe it is better that you ask me what you would like to know! :-D

Maybe I can tell you what I like about your art. Or at least one or two aspects. I love the colors and the lighting, the atmosphere. When I have to mention one particular example, it is Simon in his armor lighted with green light. So wonderfull. And another aspect I like is that you utilize the physicality of the actors. 

Oh, yes, Simon! And the green light! How wonderful! I see you have good taste! 

Send me a photo so I can imagine you better...

Good morning Yves-Noel,

I will look for a picture. 

I am glad that you like my pick of an example. One of the things I was asking myself is, how you had the idea for the costume of Simon. It is so powerfull an beautiful at the same time. 

The idea came that we found a suit of armour. It's so rare to find in theatre costume shops (but it's so beautiful, I look for it all the time) and as we only found half a suit of armour, well, Simon naked! It was still a time when young people didn't make a fuss about getting naked. Those days are long gone. In fact, I don't even suggest it to them anymore.

Hi Yves-Noël,

Since I am in the office today, I am writing via mobile phone. So my message are a little bit shorter.

But I want to say thank you for the insight how the beautiful costume for Simon arised/came to life. To be honest, one of the main things I like about your work is the constant use of nudity in your plays and performances. Many decades ago, nudity has been used to provoke scandal. From my point of view it is just beautiful. And I love that you are open for the depiction of physicality. I mean, you could have given Simon an underware in addition to the amor.....

Anyhow, I am very interested in this part of your work.

Oui, je pense comme vous, c’est juste beau. Voici un extrait de mon dernier stand-up d’il y a quelques jours, à Neuchâtel qui le redit (pour rigoler) : « Maintenant on le fait moins, de déshabiller des gens parce qu’il faut que les spectacles aient l’air d’avoir du sens. Non, ce qui était beau, c’était de déshabiller les gens pour rien. Gratuitement. Sans raison. On dit toujours : Oui, si le scénario le justifie. Non. Ce qui est beau, c’est de le faire si le scénario ne le justifie pas, voyez ! Comme le disait Eluard, il faut toujours abusé de sa liberté. Voilà ! Alors, on en a abusé. » J’aime la beauté des costumes et la beauté des corps, des apparences. Dans un très beau spectacle (Vénus & Adonis), l’actrice Kate Moran était arrosée, carrément trempée avec le tuyau des pompiers par l’acteur (allemand) Felix Ott. Elle se déshabillait donc entièrement et elle enfilait une robe de princesse dessinée par Yánnis Kókkos pour le mythique Hamlet d’Antoine Vitez (une robe empruntée au Théâtre National de Chaillot). Ce qui était beau, c’était pour le spectateur, de voir, de savoir qu’il n’y avait qu’elle (sa personne) et la robe, rien d’autre entre cette femme de velours et cette robe de velours…

Yes, I think like you, it's just beautiful. Here's an extract from my last stand-up a few days ago, in Neuchâtel, which says it again (for a laugh): "Nowadays we don't do it as much, stripping people naked because the shows have to look like they make sense. No, what was beautiful was to undress people for nothing. For nothing. For no reason. You always say: Yes, if the scenario justifies it. No. What is beautiful is to do it if the scenario doesn't justify it, see! As Eluard said, you must always abuse your freedom. That's it! So, we abused it". I like the beauty of costumes and the beauty of bodies, of appearances. In a very beautiful show (Venus & Adonis), the actress Kate Moran was doused, literally drenched with the fireman's hose by the (German) actor Felix Ott. So she undressed completely and put on a princess dress designed by Yánnis Kókkos for Antoine Vitez' mythical Hamlet (a dress borrowed from the Théâtre National de Chaillot). What was beautiful was for the spectator to see, to know that there was only her (her person) and the dress, nothing else between this velvet woman and this velvet dress…

How do you know Simon?

Thank's for the translation of the excerpt of your last show. Even when it was supposed to be fun, it unfortunately contains so much truth about this topic. People have become extremely prudish, especially the younger generation. It is very sad to see that. I mean, basically it is their own bussines, but it affects for example your work as well. You mentioned that you even don't ask for those things anymore. I really would like to encourage you to ask in the future again. 

You boiled it down to the point: I Love costumes, I love the sight of beautiful bodies... and you combine this things perfectly in your great work. Simons costume is a very fitting example. Perfect combination of costume and Body. 

I know Simon from your blog. I wonder how he reacted to the suggestion for the costume.

How old are you, Tomi? I understand that you are not from the new generation, so prudish... (It's a pity: even prudish, we love youth!)

I am 35 now! And I have to agree to you, it is a pity that the youth nowadays is so prudish! However, I think there are still young people out there who are more relaxed and open to this topic! That's why I wrote in my message in the late morning that I really would like to encourage you to ask for such things. I think there are some guys out there who understand the necessity of nudity in art.

Il n’y a pas de nécessité du tout. Je le faisais parce que c’était l’époque. Mais, maintenant, c’est une autre époque et je ne le fais plus aussi naturellement… Je n’aime pas que les choses soient compliquées, « posent problème », ça ne m’intéresse tellement pas. Tenez, je prends des cours de danse ; il y a encore dix ans les garçons baisaient dans les douches. Puis ça ne s’est plus fait. Puis les garçons ont commencé par prendre leur douche en slip, puis, maintenant ils ne prennent même plus de douche ; je suis seul, comme un vieux dinosaure, à prendre ma douche — et les regards m’évitent, je sens que c’est au bord de l’agression sexuelle — jusqu’à ce qu’on me l’interdise… Mais en Allemagne, vous êtes quand même moins cinglés, non ? Il y a une tradition du naturisme… Est-ce qu’on se baigne toujours à poil dans le centre de Munich ? Cette rivière merveilleuse, je ne sais plus son nom…

There is no need at all. I used to do it because that was the time. But now it's a different time and I don't do it as naturally... I don't like things to be complicated, to be "problematic", I'm not interested in that. Here, I’m taking dance lessons; ten years ago, boys used to fuck in the showers. Then that stopped. Then the boys started showering in their pants, and now they don't even shower any more; I'm alone, like an old dinosaur, showering - and the eyes avoid me, I feel it's on the verge of sexual assault - until I'm forbidden to do so... But in Germany, you're less crazy, aren't you? There's a tradition of naturism... Do people still swim naked in the centre of Munich? This wonderful river, I don't remember its name…

Hi!

I totally get your point! And it makes me somehow sad that this kind of art you used to do in the last 20 years seems to have no future. But on the other hand I refuse to believe that. Yes, things may have changed, but there are guys out there willing to to a lot for the sake of art! But I just can asses the whole topic from my distant point of view. You are way more close. 

Nevertheless, as menitoned, I get your point of feeling old and lost. And I am 36! I had this kind of experience when I walked into the University to get the last administrative stuff done after I had finished my studies. And I sayed to mayself: OMG, they look so young! Fuck, not long time ago I used to one of them and basically I am not old... tja, thats the way life goes. One generation get's washed away and the next generation takes it's place. But before we get to depressed, I think we are still in the best age and capable to do good scientific work and produce great pieces of art! ;-)

Sometimes it feels that we get in Germany prudish as well, but I think we are still open and relaxed in terms of nudity. I think you know the term FKK (Frei Körperkultur), wich is still practiced in the middle of Munich in the "Englischer Garten". The river you have been askingfor is the "Eisbach", a part of the river "Isar".

To get back to Simon, how did he react to the suggestion to wear only a half of a amor? After returning home I have looked on the pictures of the rehearsal and it is pure perfection and beauty! Please, don't give up to do this kind of things!

Mais Simon n’a eu aucune réaction du tout. Et il n’en aurait toujours pas maintenant. C’est une merveille de travailler avec Simon, vous pouvez pas savoir, c’est quelqu’un de miraculeux… Ce qui était difficile pour lui dans cette représentation — mais il l’a fait comme un petit challenge avec lui-même —, c’est qu’il tombait dans une rigole d’eau (là où la pluie tombait) et que plus il restait longtemps dans l’eau froide, comme mort, plus c’était beau (plus on l'oubliait) et c’était si beau quand il ressortait de là et s’avançait à l’avant-scène en grelottant, trempé, et en cachant son sexe de la main (parce que moi aussi je suis pudique et je ne voulais pas, pour cette pièce en tout cas, provoquer le public, je lui demandais de mettre la main devant son sexe, je crois qu’on le voit dans la vidéo…) 

But Simon had no reaction at all. And he still wouldn't have one now. It's a wonder to work with Simon, you don't know, he's a miraculous person... What was difficult for him in this performance - but he did it as a little challenge to himself - was that he was falling into a gutter of water (where the rain was falling) and the longer he stayed in the cold water, like dead, the more beautiful it was (the more we forgot about him) and it was so beautiful when he came out of there and walked to the front of the stage shivering, soaked, and hiding his sex with his hand (because I am also modest and I didn't want, for this play anyway, to provoke the audience, I asked him to put their hand in front of his sex, I think you can see it in the video... ) 

Wow, Simons seems to be an very committing actor! I can fully understand, that being in cold water is not very nice! I fact I hate cold water! When it isn't 25 degree or more, I avoid to swim! :-D It was very nice from you to give him the order to cover up a little bit at the end not to provoke the audience to much! And in the end you are responsible for your actors who lie in some sense in your hand. However, I think one could have handled it in the way you did it in many of your other plays and performances. Just let them stay in their role and costume! This is somehow closer to me. It is some consequence in the inscenation. As you have it done for example in your Hamlet play with Robin Causse.

Je ne comprends peut-être pas complètement ce que vous voulez dire. Mais Robin, oui, c’est encore un exemple : c’était intéressant de le déshabiller parce qu’il n’a strictement aucune pudeur : il est à poil exactement comme s’il était habillé. Donc évidemment ça m’intéresse. Parce que ce qui m’intéresse, c’est de montrer la liberté. J’ai toujours dit aux interprètes que le spectacle devait être une leçon de liberté donnée au public — sans que je sache sans doute très bien définir cette « liberté ». Une plénitude, disons. Un dégagement des « humains suffrages » comme dit Rimbaud (ça, je ne sais pas comment Deepl va le traduire, sorry ! c’est dans le poème L’Eternité). 

Je remarque que vous vous intéressez beaucoup à la nudité des garçons, vous devez être homosexuel, non ? Ce ne serait pas un reproche… J’ai souvent mis consciemment des garçons à poil dans mes spectacles parce qu’il me le fallait, ce public d’homosexuels parisiens (sans lequel tu n’es pas à la mode)… Maintenant où sont-ils ? où vont-ils, les homosexuels ? maintenant que les spectacles sont « politiques ». Peut-être se sont-ils éloignés de moi, je ne les rencontre plus ; je dois les dégoûter…

Maybe I don't fully understand what you mean. But Robin, yes, it's another example: it was interesting to undress him because he has absolutely no modesty: he's naked exactly as if he were dressed. So obviously I'm interested. Because what interests me is to show freedom. I have always told the performers that the show should be a lesson in freedom given to the audience - although I probably don't know how to define this "freedom". A fullness, let's say. A release from "human suffrages" as Rimbaud says (I don't know how Deepl will translate it, sorry! it's in the poem "L'Eternité"). 

I notice that you are very interested in the nudity of boys, you must be a homosexual, right? It wouldn't be a reproach... I often consciously put naked boys in my shows because I needed this audience of Parisian homosexuals (without whom you are not fashionable)... Now where are they? where are they going, the homosexuals? now that the shows are "political". Maybe they've moved away from me, I don't meet them anymore; I must disgust them…

To make things straigt, yes, I am homosexual and I haven't taken it as some kind of offence! It is a legal and natural question that must arise when someone is interested that much in nude boys. I hope you are not disgusted by the fact that the nudity thing in your shows is what is interesting me the most. But of course, I don't reduce your art to the nudity at all! And it is interesting that the nude boys are beside the artistic reasons there to get more audience! And I like the fact! Sex sells and every industry (art, televison, print media) are using this tool! 

Undressing Robin because he has no modest is very interesting and I fully understand your reason. I have been thinking

many times about the relationship of directors and their actors. It is some kind of dependence relating on trust and guidence.

And I love the thought that this can lead to exam the own limits and push them a little bit further. I could imagine the situation

of an actor who doesn't like to be naked immersed in an role where he has to be naked for the entire show. 

Coming back to Robin, you gave him a hard task. Undressing him is one thing, but undressing him the entire show till the end is really the maximum of nudity on can achive!

Ok, I will go to bed now and answer your message directly after getting up. 

Have a good rest of your evening and sleep very well!

Ah, sorry, I forgot to refer to the topic of freedom! I love that! For me, nudity is a great way of depicting freedom, since it is not accepted in our everyday life! It's against conventions and so, yes, one way to celebrate freedom!

Je vois que vous avez beaucoup de fantasmes, cher Tomi, celui, en tout cas, que vous me décrivez : forcer un acteur à la nudité (et je sens que vous êtes à la fois celui qui est forcé et celui qui force). Ce n’est pas du tout mon cas. L’idée de forcer ne m’intéresse pas du tout (je veux dire : ne m’excite pas). Il n’y avait aucune « hard task » pour Robin, je vous le répète, c’était tout naturel. Pour clore un peu ce chapitre « boy’s pool », pour s’en sortir un peu, je vous propose deux extraits de poésie (et cette fois en anglais) que je viens de lire dans un livre où ils étaient cités. L’un est de William Carlos Williams : « The true poet see through and all around ». L’autre de William Butler Yeats : «  Because of the increasing night / That opens her mystery and fright / Fifteen apparitions have I seen / The worst a coat upon a coat hanger ». Mais j’adorerais venir à Berlin (où êtes-vous, d’ailleurs ? vous me l’avez dit, mais je l’ai oublié, j'imagine Berlin), trouver un petit théâtre secret, convoquer de jeunes acteurs pasoliniens (ramassés dans la rue ?) et leur demander de jouer qu’ils sont forcés par un metteur en scène transi à venir nus devant du public forcé lui aussi — bien que dans l’ombre — à les observer (pauvres éphèbes) s’exhiber (à moitié consentants, à moitié inconscients, à moitié drogués), le public peut-être uniquement composé de vous-même, cher Timo, et rejouer et rejouer ce petit théâtre d’apparitions qui vous plaît tant — mais il faudrait un peu d’argent et nous n’en avons pas, c’est peut-être tant mieux ! Reste la poésie. Cette « chose indéfinissable qui est partout et nulle part, indispensable on ne sait pas à quoi, aussi secrète et mystérieuse qu’une intime croyance religieuse ou un érotisme raffiné » (c’est toujours du même livre, Deepl traduira mal). Oui, votre érotisme est raffiné, oui, il ne nous reste que des images et, oui, néanmoins la poésie flotte encore dans ce monde sans ombre…

Portez-vous bien !

YN

I see that you have many fantasies, dear Tomi, the one, at least, that you describe to me: forcing an actor into nudity (and I feel that you are both the one being forced and the one forcing). This is not my case at all. The idea of forcing doesn't interest me at all (I mean: doesn't excite me). There was no "hard task" for Robin, I repeat, it was all natural. To close this "boy's pool" chapter, to get away from it all, I offer you two extracts of poetry (this time in English) that I just read in a book where they were quoted. One is by William Carlos Williams: "The true poet see through and all around". The other is by William Butler Yeats: "Because of the increasing night / That opens her mystery and fright / Fifteen apparitions have I seen / The worst a coat upon a coat hanger". But I would love to come to Berlin (where are you, by the way? you told me, but I've forgotten, I'm imagining Berlin), find a little secret theatre, summon some young Pasolinian actors (picked up off the street? ) and ask them to play that they are forced by a transient director to come naked in front of an audience that is also forced - albeit in the shadows - to watch them (poor ephebes) expose themselves (half willingly, half unconsciously, half drugged), the audience perhaps only composed of yourself, dear Tomi, and to replay and replay this little theatre of apparitions that pleases you so much - but we would need a little money and we don't have any, so much the better perhaps! There is still poetry. That "indefinable thing that is everywhere and nowhere, indispensable to what, as secret and mysterious as an intimate religious belief or a refined eroticism" (it's always from the same book, Deepl will translate it badly). Yes, your eroticism is refined, yes, all we are left with are images and, yes, nevertheless, poetry still floats in this shadowless world...

Be well!

YN

Hello Yves-Noël,

I´d like to thank you for your last message and would like to apologize in the case I did bother you with this "boys pool" topic. It was just exciting to talk to the creator of art that contains so much nudity I love that much. It is always a danger to get lost in some kind of ideas and phantasies. But thanks to your explanation, I see many thins clearer. Especially the performance with Simon and Robin! Thanks for that!

I am really astonished how you are reading me. Yes, I love this topic I described to you from both sides! 

Thank you for the excerts of the two poems. I think I know what you want to express on hand fo this lines to me!

I am from Regensburg. A small town compared to Berlin. Regensburg is located in Bavaria. The idea of such a performance would be nice! However, you mentioned the difficulties of finding a small theatre, the actors and - of course - the money. But I like the idea very much!

And I wanted to tell you, that I don't think that the homosexuals in Paris have turned away for you! I see no reason for that!

So, what do you want to talk about?

Let's take a break, shall we? 

In fact, you can talk to me about anything you want, I'm curious about your way of life, your physical appearance of course, your idiosyncrasy... 

To please you (since I now know your tastes), I'm sending you some photos of another show in the same theatre with Simon, Jonathan and Lazare... A play I did just after the Paris attacks (Bataclan...), which was called: Par délicatesse j'ai perdu ma vie (It's by Rimbaud). The quality of the photos is much lower than in the videos, it's just me who takes these souvenir photos, between two rehearsals... ...

Sincerely yours, Tomi,

YN